Exploring the fabrication of the Islamic narrative with Lloyd De Jongh

2024-09-15

Exploring the fabrication of the Islamic narrative with Lloyd De Jongh

Lloyd De Jongh re-invited Odon Lafontaine on his channel (see their first discussion here) for a presentation on the Islamic narrative. The Islamic narrative is central to Islam, explaining the essentials of the religion: what happened at its beginnings, how a Pagan prophet received a divine revelation in the form of the Quran, appointing him and his successors (the caliphs) as divine rulers. Without the Islamic narrative—without the sira (the Islamic biography of Muhammad), the hadith, the tafsir (Islamic interpretation of the Quran), and Islamic historical chronicles—it is impossible to understand the Quran according to its Islamic interpretation.

In his book, The Great Secret of Islam, Odon details why and how the Islamic narrative was fabricated centuries after the early events of Islam. A complex process of writing and rewriting history was employed, building a layered narrative and adding invention upon invention.

Lloyd and Odon discussed this crucial topic for nearly three hours…

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▶ Download the PDF file of Odon’s presentation:
https://thegreatsecretofislam.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/24.09.14-the-fabrication-of-the-sin.pdf

▶ Antoine Borrut’s article “La fabrique de l’histoire et de la tradition islamiques” [The Making of Islamic History and Tradition] (referenced by Odon at around the 10-minute mark in the video):
https://doi.org/10.4000/remmm.7053

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Lloyd De Jongh

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Odon Lafontaine

Auteur du livre “Le grand secret de l’islam” Author of “The Great Secret of Islam” Autor de “El gran secreto del islam”

4 responses to “Exploring the fabrication of the Islamic narrative with Lloyd De Jongh”

David Hansen

November 4, 2024 at 5:01 pm

At about one hour 50 minutes in you present a map of the possible location of the Qurayshi tribe, in NW Syria of that day. In other Islamic origins works, the question of where “Beka” is, has been raised (I made my comment about Ps 84 and subsequently was gratified to see that Ps 84 was mentioned, it is the only mention of Becca in the Bible). Also in that area is the Beqa valley, which I believe is near the Leontes (Litani) River valley, between the Lebanon and Antilebanon Mountain ranges. In that valley is the huge archaeological find of Baalbek. The connection of the pagan Baals (lords) has also been mentioned. I suggest that the bek in Baalbek is the key. I suggest that Baalbeka became known as Baalbek. That site is in a Becca or Beqa or Beka valley, which I think is northwest of your “Qurayshi” location.. Please let me know what you think. There is a location for the Beka valley in a map that is in the back of the Thompson Chain Reference Bible, and Baalbek is listed in the appendix on archaeological sites in that same bible. David Hansen (davidhansen.peng@gmail.com)

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1. Odon Lafontaine
  
  November 6, 2024 at 6:29 pm
  
  Given the hajj / pilgrimage context of the only mention of “Bakka” in the Quran, it seems very likely that it refers to the Ps 84 “Baka”. There may be a connection with Lebanese Beka, but if so, it would likely predate the 7th cent. Quranic preaching. There might be something in ancient Jewish tradition. In any case, for our Quranic study, the main point is the identification of “Bakka” in 3:96 with “Baka” in Psalm 84 (be’emeq habaka, “through the Valley of Baca” or “through the Valley of Thirst”).
  
  You should also be familiar with articles by Shoemaker and Kerr on this topic:
  – Stephen Shoemaker, “The Quran’s Holy House: Mecca or Jerusalem”, in M. GROSS & Robert M. KERR (Ed.), Die Entstehung einer Weltreligion VII, Inârah 11, Schiler & Mücke & Mücke, 2023: https://thegreatsecretofislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/the-quran-s-holy-house-mecca-or-jerusalem.pdf
  – Robert Kerr, “« Farüqter Heiland » et le Ḥajj original à Jérusalem, quelques remarques sur le messianisme de l’islam naissant” in Robert M. KERR, Markus GROSS & Karl-Heinz OHLIG (Ed.), Die Entstehung einer Weltreligion VI, Inârah volume 10, Berlin, Schiler & Mücke 2020: https://www.academia.edu/62960121/_Far%C3%BCqter_Heiland_et_le_%E1%B8%A4ajj_original_%C3%A0_J%C3%A9rusalem_Quelques_remarques_sur_le_messianisme_de_l_islam_naissant
  
  Gallez also wrote about it in his thesis.
  
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  1. maximumenemy6ee4b54b19
    
    November 8, 2024 at 11:14 pm
    
    Thank you. I am thrilled to get a reply from you Odon. I have much reading to do. Psalm 84 is attributed to the Sons of Korah but was compiled by King David. The son of this king obtained cedars from Hiram of Lebanon, where the Bekaa Valley is located. I would like to get in more direct contact with Jay Smith. I am a retired academic. Years ago I met his parents here in Halifax NS, at a time when he was sick in Turkey (we prayed for him). He subsequently sent me a start on a book that he was working on. I would like to say hello and be in contact, perhaps you have his own email address. Thanks, David Hansen
    
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How the ‘Standard Islamic Narrative’ was fabricated | The great secret of Islam

September 15, 2025 at 10:07 pm

[…] Odon Lafontaine was invited to the June 2025 NAPC Conference in London to present his research on the origins of Islam. In particular, he explained how Islam constructed a fabricated “standard” narrative about its own beginnings (building upon the conference he already gave on Lloyd De Jongh’s channel). […]

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